Podcasts

Dr Shaireen: Hi, my name is Shai and I have a special guest for our podcast today. Ms Loy Wee Mee, who is a pre-school leader, a mum of three young adults and also runs five childcare centres. Oh, my goodness, she is a super mum! I can’t believe how many things you can accomplish in a day, Wee Mee. So welcome to our podcast, Wee Mee. 

Ms Loy: Thank you, thank you, Shai. It’s lovely to be invited to this because it’s nice that when you hear the voices from the ground, we want to really come and connect with everybody. 

Dr Shaireen: Excellent. And that’s why we need your perspectives today. So maybe, Wee Mee, as a start, having been a director of five schools over the last 24 years. Can you tell me a little bit more about your school’s approach to learning? And how many children have graduated from your school so far? 

Ms Loy: Over 24 years, we did a count and it must be more than a thousand children. I still keep in touch with some of them because we track them to see how they’re doing. I met up with some of them in Melbourne and, lovely to catch up with everybody. We’ve got a songwriter in the midst. We’ve got researchers. We have got so many different walks of life. So it’s really lovely. So the whole approach that we’ve used through these years is very simple. It’s play, discover, create. That’s what we believe. That’s how children are going to learn. 

Dr Shaireen: Wow. And the fact that you can see the impact of what you do over the years and see from kindergarten, right up to when they become adults, it’s actually living proof of some of the work that you do. Okay, so if that’s the case, then I think you are the best person that we should be talking to about preparing children and families for the transition to primary school. So I wanted to ask, there’s this perception in Singapore today about play. And then you talked just now that one of your approaches at your school is play, discover and create. So I’d like to hear your thoughts in terms of why is it that you incorporate it in your school and how does it help in learning? 

Ms Loy: Okay. You’ve got to go back 24 years, when we first started. When I came into this, I, of course, with my own child at the centre of it all, I started to ask myself, what does my child need? And then I looked around and I started to see how children develop locally. And, of course, in the different countries that I’ve worked in. And I’ve been very blessed to have been given opportunities to work overseas. For me, it’s really important that my child must grow up to be happy. Must be growing up with dirt under his nails and walking through the mud. So that was something in a vision that I had. And when I started looking around, I then came to this conclusion that why not start something that I believe in? And that was how Pre-School By-The-Park was started way back 24 years ago. So the whole concept about play, discover, create really anchors so strongly on what the children need at this phase. I don’t have youths anymore. I have young adults as my children. I’ve got a 25-year-old and a 22-year-old and an 18-year-old. So as they progress in the different phases, I can see that they need different things. And when they were at a very young age, it was really a deep belief that they need to be out there. They need to be doing things. It’s not just about being in the outdoor, but learning shouldn’t be so didactic, like sitting and just absorbing. And so with that in mind, I started Pre-School By-The-Park. So play for me is not just about masak masak minus play, but it’s such a rich experience for the child from all the years that I’ve seen. I still marvel at how when that connection is made in a child and the shine in the little toddler, those are some beautiful moments for me. And that’s why for us, we always share with parents. I don’t think we’re in a position to always say that we are educating parents. But we want to share with parents that, hey, how should learning look like for this age? And this is just a phase in their entire journey. So that’s where we built very heavily on this approach, Play, Discover, Create. With Discover, we started to think what is discover? And so we said, okay, we need to have that similar vocabulary for the team. And we landed on a culture of thinking. See, Think, Wonder. It was so easy. See, Think, Wonder. 

Dr Shaireen: Which is something that we use in a lot of our approaches in schools. Yeah. 

Ms Loy: So it carries through as well for children as well. The very last action verb, create. That’s my favourite because it’s not just about creating work or tangibles, but the relationships we create, the memories we create. And these days, the children have really big, big voices. They’re creating advocacy about the environment, the trees, about what they care for. So that really is how learning should look like for the children. 

Dr Shaireen: So you have your own, in short, it started off as a bit of an experiment because you’re personally motivated to want to give this to your children. And you have the evidence and the documentation over the years, so you can speak about it very confidently that it actually works and that it’s a testament to holding on to this philosophy that play actually enables and sets that foundation right throughout a person’s development. 

Ms Loy: Absolutely. 

Dr Shaireen: But, Wee Mee, this is something that you were personally motivated. So you were invested in it. But maybe there are parents out there who struggle to understand that. And they may not accept it so readily. This whole idea of learning through play. So how do you then communicate this so that you have that buy-in for the parents to highlight to them that this is so critical? 

Ms Loy: Generally, when parents visit and do the school tour, we share the philosophy. When the children are very young, it’s very easy. They believe in play as well. But honestly, as they progress, they get a little bit nervous. They’ll be thinking like, hey, my friends are, you know, their children are going through a very different approach or philosophy or the kind of work that they’re doing is very different. They do get a bit nervous. And that’s when the communication, we have got to show them as well. So I’ll give you an example. Let’s say my K2s. So the K2 read a book. The book’s name is Extra Yarn. And it was really about weaving and yarn. So the boy, not just the girl, the boys too, were very interested in it and they started weaving and working with the yarn. And that in itself is really engaging. I find them seated there pondering, wondering. 

Ms Loy: And the next thing I knew, they went outdoors and were weaving leaves, taking blades and weaving. We have lots of that to show. One parent was saying, “They’re doing a lot of that, but where is the writing and where is the spelling?” So we invited the parents in. One evening at 5:00, we got them to sit and experience it. Then the parents realised there was so much learning in it. There was focus, self-control, understanding about patterning, learning about length and how tight you pull it, etc. When the children were teaching them, I think that’s when the parents were won over. They looked at the journals the children had been documenting, what they’d been drawing, and how excited they were about learning. They weaved everything. From there, we extended it, of course. That’s just one small example of how we get buy-in. We let parents experience it, and when they see the joy in learning, we’ve won them. When they see their children so engaged and understand the whole process, they believe that learning doesn’t need to happen in the traditional form, just a passive sit-down. Through these activities, this simple activity (I use this because it’s for a six-year-old age group, a younger age group), everybody knows we can do so much more. People tend to think that when they grow older, we shouldn’t be playing so much. That’s the reverse. When they play, they talk about it, experiment, make mistakes, fail, and problem-solve. They talk to each other, and the class is always engaged. You don’t have to worry about them being bored, coming up to you saying, “I finished this, what do I do next?” That never happens in our environment, in our spaces. 

Dr Shaireen: Thanks for that. That’s really interesting. I can imagine the joy on the parents’ faces when they discover, by observing their children, the value of the experience. 

Dr Shaireen: What do you have to say to parents who have that insecurity, even though they see, “Yes, this is right. This is the right thing to do. This is something we should support,” but there’s that tinge of insecurity, saying, “Maybe a little tuition wouldn’t hurt. Maybe all play is not enough. Maybe tuition will ensure they’re prepared for the transition to primary school.” What are your thoughts? 

Ms Loy: For those outliers, we kind of reel them in slowly. We talk to them, have workshops and conversations. At the beginning of the year, we have a tea session with all families to discuss the year’s plans. I always ask, “If you’re given one wish, what would you want for your child?” It’s one wish, potentially at the expense of another, so they think carefully. The answers are: “I want my child to be happy. I want my child to be healthy. I want my child to be kind and have lots of friends.” Then we ask, “How does tuition help that?” Especially for pre-school, I believe there’s a season for everything. At the beginning of their journey, if we don’t give them these wonderful memories of play, joy, excitement, failing and standing up again, how will they face what’s ahead? How will they be excited about it? We subscribe to Ellen Galinsky’s Mind in the Making: The Seven Essential Skills. I firmly believe in it, even when we share it with families. Some fathers gave me feedback, saying, “That’s also applicable in my work.” These seven essential skills are focus, self-control, perspective-taking, communication, making connections, critical thinking, taking on challenges, and self-learning. If we equip children with these skills, they’ll know how to use the right skill when facing challenges. “I need to put across a message to my team on building this and that, so how do I do it?” When we share that with families, we ask, “What do children really need to move ahead? Just teaching them what to expect for primary one? Because if we teach them what to expect for primary one, who will teach them for primary two, three, and four?” We shouldn’t always give them that little head start. I love the show Inside Out. It resonated so well with me because of the memories they build. They talk about the memory orbs. Children need these orbs when times are bad, when they’re feeling deflated, thinking, “I can’t do it.” They need these orbs to say, “But in those circumstances, I did it. I conquered that. I climbed up. I finished the task. I completed it.” These are what we can share with families through regular communication, showing them how the children are thriving and coming to school. The greatest testament is when children don’t want to go home. 

Dr Shaireen: I have that. It’s a good problem. 

Ms Loy: That’s it. “Five more minutes! Five more minutes! The parking is costing us! Free parking is only for ten minutes!” So they say “five minutes,” and the children are like, “No!” To me, that’s a signal that the children are growing, and the friendships they’re forging are important. For parents who are still nervous, we are not cowboys. We do academic stuff, but age-appropriately. The journals I mentioned—today, for my three-year-olds, there were lots of shoes there. The children were about to enter because it was an outdoor area. One child started matching pairs of slippers. Soon, everyone was matching, ensuring they had the right pair. Who is to say that isn’t learning? 

Dr Shaireen: That’s right. That’s a wonderful story, Wee Mee. One takeaway is that parents need to commit to what they actually want. Parents want a lot, but I like how you encourage them to focus on what is most important and reflect on what needs to be done. I asked about tuition. It’s academic. You mentioned skills. What are your thoughts on enrichment? It may not be tuition, but would it prepare or over-prepare children for primary school? 

Ms Loy: Sharing my personal parenting journey, I put my children in lots of enrichment. We called them enrichment, but they were tennis, swimming, soccer lessons. We did it with friends, so they looked forward to it. My children had lots of friends. At 4 or 5, they had sleepovers at each other’s houses. It was a nice way to grow up. Those skills weren’t forced. Learning how to learn and how to be in a group was important to me. The games we signed them up for were always team sports. We wanted them to pick up discipline. For example, “I know Tuesday afternoon I have soccer, so I must have my boots, socks, and water tumbler…” 

Dr Shaireen: You were a soccer mum? 

Ms Loy: I was a rugby mum, actually. I hoped my boy would be a tennis player, but at P2, he said, “No, I’m giving up the racket. I’m going for rugby.” 

Dr Shaireen: You can’t plan it for them, Wee Mee. 

Ms Loy: And he’s been at it added to this very age. At 25, he’s still playing. So that kind of passion, I think, is important that we support and help them find. So my daughter was tennis, my youngest also was rugby. And once they find that passion, there is direction as well for them. They know and they put their heart and soul, and that is a lot of character coming out. So with that enrichment, my view is that it is not a “no no,” but really, what’s the intention and how is that being very carefully thought through that it is not about churning out another Olympic gold medalist, but it’s really about letting the child enjoy the learning with a group of friends. 

Dr Shaireen: So I suppose also, the thing is, one has to understand the child and understand what motivates the child, what their inclinations are, their strengths and weaknesses, and play along with that and support that. Rather than say, okay, yes, I want rugby or I want tennis, but they’ll make their own choices. 

Ms Loy: Sadly, yeah, they didn’t. I thought it was going to be another tennis player, and that’s so cute, right? In a white outfit. 

Dr Shaireen: Thanks for that, Wee Mee. So we’ve talked at length about some of the value of play as well as exposing children to various areas of interest and development. I’d like to ask a little bit more about the pre-school programme. And you, having managed the centre for such a long time. How has your school supported children in their transition to primary school? Do you have any specific programmes or initiatives that you undertake in your school? 

Ms Loy: Yes, we do. Actually, I don’t see that we are only preparing them in K2. It’s a whole process from the very moment they start. For example, for the littlest ones, they learn that this is my water bottle and I take it and I’m responsible for it. And as they progress, skills like problem-solving, you know, what happens if I didn’t bring my water bottle for the day, I ask for a cup, I cannot just say I don’t drink water throughout the day. So these are things that we start from a very young age, but specifically in K2 where we want them to go into their next. I always call it the formal schooling years. I don’t want to call it just I’m not preparing them for just primary one. I’m preparing them for a much longer journey than that. So what do I want? We want them to be confident, you know, we want them to be excited about the journey that’s ahead. We want them to know that it will be a different journey and there will be ups and downs, but they go right through it and they will go on to achieve what they set out to achieve. So they’re not just academic. I mean, of course, yes, you will have the academics, but I really believe that it’s going into primary one is not about academics. It’s really about that self. How excited is the child to say, oh great, it’s going to be another journey. It’s going to be another learning. Things are going to be different. I can do it. You know, some of the programmes that we do. So this is really cute. We get them to prepare some coins, you know, everybody will bring $2 worth of coins, and then they’ll buy their lunch from the auntie. So the auntie decides today is 1.20. They’ve got to figure out which is 1.20. 

Dr Shaireen: So like role play in that sense. Yeah, okay. All right. 

Ms Loy: But what was very funny I have to share this with you. We do bring them into one of the primary schools for a half day of orientation. That’s not with the parents. It’s with us. It’s a wonderful programme that we have with the primary school. The P6 boys will take our K2s. Tell them you know what to expect, sit where. And unfortunately, they show them the bookshop they’ll tell them, hey, guys, this is where you get the rubber. You know, the eraser pencils. 

Dr Shaireen: Yeah. 

Ms Loy: Yeah. And so what happened was, on one occasion, I went with the children, and this boy went up to the canteen, and he bought something. And then the canteen vendor said, okay, 1.50 he took out 1.50, he gave the boy and he stood there and I was wondering why. And he told me he needs to give me back the money, because in our daily, in our usual role play, right, our auntie the cook will give back. 

Dr Shaireen: Ah. 

Ms Loy: So after that I told the teachers, okay, okay guys, that’s it. We got to go through with the whole act, okay? Keep the coins. Don’t return it to them. Yeah, but these are ways that we get them familiarised with the routine and expectations without their parents. Right. So this is one way. Other things would be things like getting them to be more aware of time because, you know, for us, we have half a day and our half day. We do have routines as well. But sometimes some of the children, they, you know, they enjoy their lunch and they can take their time. So that’s where we have to build in a bit of time awareness for them. Yeah. So these are some of the little skills that we prep them to make sure that when they enter the next phase, they’re not going to be frightened. Actually, the other thing that’s important to help them with is emotions. So we talk about emotions and they’re able to express it. 

Dr Shaireen: Social-emotional development. 

Ms Loy: Yeah. They’ll tell we can talk outwardly that we say, okay, I was nervous and I felt awful, or I was angry because you need to help them to have these words, such that when they move on to the next phase, right? They know that emotions are real and they are able to express themselves. I think this is a very important skill. Because we do not want to deny them. We do not want to say that, you know, don’t do that. And nope, stop it, you’re not allowed to have that. That’s not that’s not what these children need. 

Dr Shaireen: I hear you, Wee Mee. So these aspects of building the child’s confidence and enabling the child to be independent are very critical, particularly in primary one, where they, in a sense, are the first time that they are going into the classrooms on their own. They should have these skills to be able to manage themselves. So what are your thoughts? If it’s a first-time parent, how would they know that their child is adequately prepared? 

Ms Loy: Well, in my opinion, you cannot define whether a child is going to be adequately prepared because it’s not a gauge, it’s not a test. But what we want to know is that the child knows how to address the situation. And we want to trust the child that he or she is able to use his emotions to use his words, and able to resolve. Because things like perspective-taking, in teaching them to say, okay, how does the other party feel or making connections, why is it happening this way and that? So these are things that we work very hard on ensuring that the child that we send, leaving, crossing the foothold of our gates will be that C.H.I.L.D. The child, the citizen of tomorrow. Holistic. That’s our learning outcomes. Actually called a citizen of tomorrow. Holistic, inquisitive, loves learning, and determined. Right. So these are what we bless and equip the child with. 

Ms Loy: I actually think it’s more a case of the parents not being prepared. Parents are the ones who get nervous, and then they’ll be like doing the penguin parade at the primary one canteen, standing there watching. I think it’s a lovely experience, and every parent should go through it because that’s the moment you know your child is starting another journey. Children look to us for skills. If we’re nervous, fussing, and worried, the child picks up on it. But if you can laugh it off—”Oh, that was a boo-boo. You didn’t bring your water bottle. Okay, what did you do? Oh, good stuff. You got a cup from somewhere”—how a parent reacts is very important. I always tell parents, “It’s a journey, embrace it. You never know what’s coming. You can never be totally prepared. You’ll hear lots of stories. Go experience it yourself.” 

Dr Shaireen: So, following that, Wee Mee, considering your 24 years managing this, have you ever seen a child who was truly unprepared? 

Ms Loy: I know some children who wanted to come back to pre-school because they were so comfortable there, but they were in primary school. 

Dr Shaireen: They wanted to stay back. 

Ms Loy: Yes, correct. I had a mum one day—I always remember this—she drove her son to the pre-school and said, “None of your friends are here. Everybody has moved on.” The boy said, “Okay, all right then, I’m going to go.” He didn’t have a choice. I don’t think any of them didn’t cope. If anything, it could be overwhelming because there are so many parents, so many things happening. We always check in with the children, asking how it is. The K2 teachers do have a way to connect with them. We don’t have any who resisted, found it very difficult, or were unprepared—nothing of that sort. Some may have anxieties, but they could talk about them. The K2 teacher talks to them, saying, “Remember what we talked about? The feelings? Now tell me what it is.” They talk about it, we guide them through, and they feel better. We share this with parents, that the first three minutes when you receive your child are crucial. For the rest of their schooling years, those first three minutes are when they’ll tell you everything. Later when they go into their youths, it becomes a grunt. “How was your day?” “Urgh.” “Was it great?” “Urgh.” I’ve been through all that. 

Dr Shaireen: I’m reminded of your point: It’s sometimes not about preparing the child. It’s also preparing the parent. 

Ms Loy: Yeah, yeah. 

Dr Shaireen: So, what’s your advice for parents to support their child during this transition from pre-school to primary school? 

Ms Loy: The first thing parents shouldn’t do is make it a fearful experience. Don’t make it sound like trauma. “Don’t do this! You’re going to get a scolding!” Nothing like that. Embrace it. As parents, you want to be part of that journey, ready with them, not that we’re going to be prepared. We never know. But have the attitude of taking one step at a time. We definitely want to encourage families to put in the discipline, the routine. “What time do you need to pack your bag?” Just like in school. For us, the K2s come to school with their own backpacks. We don’t want the parent, helper, or grandparent bringing it. We tell them, “By this age, you need to bring your own backpack.” 

Dr Shaireen: And when you go to NS, also, you have to do that. 

Ms Loy: That’s correct. 

Ms Loy: Let’s not bring up a certain place. We start from young. You jolly well be bringing your own backpack. For parents, enjoy the process. Enjoy that they’re transitioning into another adventure. Roll with them. Let’s not make it a terrifying experience. That’s the best advice I can give. 

Dr Shaireen: Great advice. Wee Mee, it’s about framing. If parents are anxious, it emerges in how they talk to the children, and children are always able to detect it. Parents have to do a lot of work to have a clear mental idea of what’s important, and then frame it to support the children through conversation and helping them understand the changes. That’s wonderful advice. 

Ms Loy: Yeah. 

Dr Shaireen: Wee Mee, looks like we’ve been talking for a while. I enjoyed your quips, anecdotes, and stories. It’s a party every day with the children, learning how they see things. I hope the wisdom you’ve shared will enable listeners to support their children’s transition. Thank you so much for sharing. 

Ms Loy: It’s my pleasure. Thank you for having me. I wish all parents a happy journey with their children. It’s been a pleasure working with children. Remember, this is a phase, a season for them to go and be themselves. Be grubby, dirty, smelly, and just be themselves. 

Dr Shaireen: Be a child. 

Ms Loy: C.H.I.L.D, citizen of tomorrow. Okay, that’s important. 

Dr Shaireen: Thank you, Wee Mee. 

Ms Loy: Thank you.